rikin on the web - Latest Comments in Brazen Faith - David Dellifield of Ada, Ohio is a Good Guy

Re: Brazen Faith - David Dellifield of Ada, Ohio is a Good Guy

Mon, 30 Sep 2013 02:53:54 -0000

This sums it up: "I agree that her behaviour was despicable & out of malice, which is not an Aspie trait, but a narcissist one."

Re: Brazen Faith - David Dellifield of Ada, Ohio is a Good Guy

Xanthe Wyse — Sat, 13 Aug 2011 09:55:53 -0000

I agree that her behaviour was despicable & out of malice, which is not an Aspie trait, but a narcissist one.

http://baileybear.hubpages....

Re: Brazen Faith - David Dellifield of Ada, Ohio is a Good Guy

Boo — Fri, 15 Jul 2011 15:30:04 -0000

great post. I came across Penelope's blog when she ripped into Tim Ferriss for tricking her into a cup of coffee, and for apparently being an asshole. I felt she was completely out of line and unprofessional, granted it is her opinion. After I read the post about David from Ohio, I have zero, absolutely zero respect for her. She's just a bitch, plain and simple. Thanks for a great post, Rikin.

Re: Brazen Faith - David Dellifield of Ada, Ohio is a Good Guy

RK — Fri, 07 Jan 2011 05:39:54 -0000

I landed at PT's site after I Googled a career advice search and for once thought the blog was something that I should subscribe to. Then I fished around the blog only to find that the David Dallifield post was her most popular post and the latest blog (Jan 2011) is about her life with a farmer and breaking her head with a lamp and what not...what lessons should I be taking away from all this...I am already getting a headache! I agree fully with your response...what David did may not be saintly but how PT responded was definitely devilish...

Re: Brazen Faith - David Dellifield of Ada, Ohio is a Good Guy

Dave — Tue, 23 Mar 2010 09:16:39 -0000

Penelope Trunk is a cunt - plain and simple.

Re: Brazen Faith - David Dellifield of Ada, Ohio is a Good Guy

Bob — Sun, 01 Nov 2009 20:37:47 -0000

I thought it was shocking what Penelope did. The same kind of shock one might get from seeing two kids pee in a church fountain before setting fire to the confessional box.

Someone makes a snarky remark on Twitter, and this woman goes berserk and calls him at work? David's remark wasn't even that bad - I've said much worse things to my friends as a passing joke.

It's like a bad episode of Jerry Springer, or a Howard Stern prank gone wrong. But then again, I suppose that make for good reading.

Moral of this story: Jerry Springer is way cooler than CBS News!

Re: Brazen Faith - David Dellifield of Ada, Ohio is a Good Guy

disgusted — Fri, 01 May 2009 12:36:07 -0000

The big problem is that people think they can tell others how to live and think.

PT was bored - it can happen - but David told her she didn't want her kids - one had nothing to do with the other. If you do the samething for too long, you can get bored.

I had a total stranger tell me that I couldn't walk my dogs on my own lawn - where does it stop? Why don't people have respect for others anymore? Why is everything me, me, me these days?

Re: Brazen Faith - David Dellifield of Ada, Ohio is a Good Guy

rikin — Wed, 29 Apr 2009 21:04:25 -0000

Hi Monica,
Thanks for coming back and leaving a comment that I know you thought about.
I agree, it'd be nice to hear what a lot of mothers had to say about PT's
post but I believe some have commented here and I know I've read quite a few
comments by mothers on either side of the argument.

I also don't think my post lacks the thought that David was 'attacking' her
children because in my eyes that's a little bit of a stretch. I might be
wrong but I just don't see how he 'attacked' them, I can't find any threat
in there.

Oh wells. I guess it's all over with now but we definitely can learn
SOMETHING from this even if everyone doesn't take away the same thing.

Thanks for coming by again!

Rikin

Re: Brazen Faith - David Dellifield of Ada, Ohio is a Good Guy

Monica O'Brien — Wed, 29 Apr 2009 20:28:21 -0000

Hi Rikin,

I'm somehow back here again. Why? Probably because I need to write this comment.

I don't completely disagree with what you're saying, and it's very well-laid out. I think you have to remember that Penelope is very popular and thus every move she makes is very criticized. It's not her "fault" because she puts herself out there for everyone to read. We all do that as bloggers, it's just most of us don't have a lot of people who care.

Did she flip out on David? Maybe. But it wasn't because he attacked her and she couldn't take it. People attack Penelope all the time online. What I think is missing in this post (and others like it) is context: that Penelope probably saw David's comment as an attack on her children. That's how I would see it.

Maybe her actions were extreme. But look. If someone attacked my children or my love for my children (and I don't even have children, so technically we're talking about my future children) I would probably go nuts. Because normal people who love their children go crazy over those things. And sometimes those people are semi-famous like Penelope is.

Maybe you're right, but my sympathy is with P at the end of the day. I don't think what she did was that despicable and it certainly wasn't unprovoked when you put David's tweet in the context of attacking P's children.

PS. No offense to Rikin or any other guys, I'm just wondering if there are any mothers who have written a post like this. I've only seen versions of this post on single guy's blogs. Just a passing thought.

Re: Brazen Faith - David Dellifield of Ada, Ohio is a Good Guy

rikin — Wed, 15 Apr 2009 23:50:18 -0000

Colleen - thanks for your passionate response to say the least, please keep
the language a little more kosher next time if you could though. I agree
completely that Penelope really has not made it any easier to put some of
our stereotypes and gender misconceptions to rest. I just don't know what
will anymore to be honest. I have yet to hear anything new and fresh when it
comes to the topic of closing the so called "gender-gap".

Re: Brazen Faith - David Dellifield of Ada, Ohio is a Good Guy

Colleen — Wed, 15 Apr 2009 17:13:49 -0000

"I have a lot of experience dealing with people who think I'm an idiot."

Penelope, you yourself and you alone, have caused a person to think you're an idiot. Namely, me. I never heard of you before this week and I certainly will give absolute zero credence to anything you have to say about life, careers, parenting....anything at all in fact, regardless of your credentials. Based on that one post of yours you have defined yourself as...well, I don't have a polite word to say what I really think, so...a psycho. A crazy stalker bitch. You say that men criticize women more harshly? Gee, I wonder why that would be your experience? Could it be that your over-the-top, insane, scary, stupid, ridiculous, unbelievable, oh and did I mention INSANE?!? response to a negative TWITTER (for gods sake!) simply reinforced in many lumpheaded males idea that we are silly and ridiculous and stupid and INSANE!!!! women?

On behalf of we once-and-future bloggers, working women and moms: thanks SOOOO much for the boost in our credibility. (please note sarcasm) As if it wasn't already hard enough over-coming these stereotypes.

If you call me at work, I will put you on speaker phone and my colleagues and I will laugh at you. If you call me at home, I will turn on the answering machine and record you and I will press charges for stalking and harassment.

Rikin: this was an excellent blog post. You I will return to read.

Re: Brazen Faith - David Dellifield of Ada, Ohio is a Good Guy

rikin — Tue, 14 Apr 2009 17:02:01 -0000

Shanus - those analogies were amazing and I literally laughed out
loud.*Anyone else got a quirky analogy or three?
*

Re: Brazen Faith - David Dellifield of Ada, Ohio is a Good Guy

Shane Hoversten — Tue, 14 Apr 2009 15:22:45 -0000

Thanks for this post.

I admit I found the BC post funny, from the standpoint of simple carnage. But really, this issue seems pretty simple: from an internet-level perspective, this David dude is six inches tall, and Penelope is a thousand feet tall. David poked her, and she stomped him into oblivion. Hard to argue with those facts.

It'd be like LeBron James's wife slapping his hand and him punching her in the face as hard as he could. Regardless of whether David was in the right to slap at Penelope's hand, her response was not grown-up behavior in any place I'd want to live.

Re: Brazen Faith - David Dellifield of Ada, Ohio is a Good Guy

rikin — Tue, 14 Apr 2009 11:43:09 -0000

Society's willingness to provide someone admiration and fame is a bit ridiculous. Being a sociology major made me this cynical in the first place.

In regards to GK - his social strategy is strange but he is one of the founders of Apple and for that I respect him. His entrepreneur efforts online haven't been the most stellar but at least he's not just sitting on his money and not trying to do anything.

Re: Brazen Faith - David Dellifield of Ada, Ohio is a Good Guy

rikin — Tue, 14 Apr 2009 11:38:15 -0000

Penelope,

Thank you for coming by and offering the other side of the story. The blogging world is definitely hierarchical and I can understand that out of necessity your behavior is inherently different than mine or any other average blogger. I still think that rules of morality and decency apply to us all - though they're individually defined - and hopefully one day if I am ever at your level of exposure I can say that I upheld my rules throughout the journey.

I also agree that, "if people can say anything to me -- even on my own blog, since I allow almost anything -- then I should be able to say anything back. This is what real conversation is." Where I disagree is that I don't think you had a 'real conversation' with David to get his side of the story. Regardless, you also attempted to offline and involved his wife unnecessarily. I don't see how you can justify reaching out to his wife simply because they share the same home phone number. Just because he mentioned his wife I wouldn't assume that she had any part in his response to you. It just seemed over the top to get her involved. Would you reach out to his parents for raising a boy without any manners if you could?

Matt also makes a good point and since there's a lot of copy and paste going on I'll do the same: "After all the criticism you’ve taken, David, a relative unknown in comparison to the CNN’s and Yahoo’s of the world, makes one snide remark on Twitter - and it turns into this? You go above and beyond what anyone I know would do to ‘get him back’ for being a jerk?" I think that many of us feel that David's actions and relative lack of 'status' didn't warrant the response he received. We could probably go back and forth on this all day because like you said there's no right and wrong. What can't be denied is that this whole spat at least showed us the effects of taking one path. Some of us will be encouraged and others will be discouraged to follow it . I still stand with the latter group.

The role of gender in this whole debacle is something I try to stray away from because obviously I don't know what it's like to be a female and a mother. However, I think there may have been better ways to set an example, as a feminist, in such a situation. No male or female should be mute and defenseless when personally attacked but when someone throws a punch you don't take out the guns, so to speak. Maybe you think that what you did was fair and justified but I still simply can't see that.

Finally, I understand that you have a relative high amount of power and I respect all that you've done to achieve it. I think Brazen Careerist is a great community and the best I've joined so far even with all of its flaws. I think your writing and your track record speak for itself - impressive and controversial at the least. No one gets to where you are without stepping on a few toes whether intentionally or not. I just think some battles aren't worth fighting. I'd much rather read about your actual advice and learn from your experiences than see you intentionally haze others in an attempt to make a point. A point that I don't think came across to all of your readers.

Thanks again for coming by. I'm not happy that this was our first way of introduction but I hope you can at least understand where some of us are coming from.

Best,

Rikin

Re: Brazen Faith - David Dellifield of Ada, Ohio is a Good Guy

Ryan Paugh — Tue, 14 Apr 2009 10:08:51 -0000

Thanks Sarah! You rock. And we miss you.

Re: Brazen Faith - David Dellifield of Ada, Ohio is a Good Guy

Ryan Paugh — Tue, 14 Apr 2009 10:07:52 -0000

It's really not as interesting as you might think today ... Life at Brazen HQ goes on. We're rolling out some great new features to try and strengthen and grow our community. That's where I'm trying to focus my energy.

But if people want to talk about this I'm happy to. Either here, or privately on the site.

-RP

Re: Brazen Faith - David Dellifield of Ada, Ohio is a Good Guy

Penelope Trunk — Tue, 14 Apr 2009 09:57:37 -0000

I understand that you guys think my post was out of line. I want to suggest, though, that blogging for most people and blogging on a high-profile blog actually do not have the same rules.

For example, you respond personally to most of your commenters, and if you ignored 90% of your commenters, you would be rude. On any given day, more than 90% of my commenters hear nothing from me, but I am known for actually being very engaged in my comments section.

That's an example of how the rules are different.

Another difference is the level of criticism I field. I have been on CNN getting slammed for blog posts. I have written posts on Yahoo Finance that received more than 500 comments, most of them not just negative, but imploring Yahoo to fire me. My Wikipedia page is often on lockdown -- as in all edits must be approved -- because people write such offensive commentary on it.

So I am operating under a very different set of rules than most bloggers for what is fair game for criticism. In general, I would say I put up with most of it. I can generally tell when I'm going to get slammed on television, and I do the interviews anyway. And I leave up so many absolutely offensive comments on my blog that commenters actually complain that I should delete more.

This brings me to, what are the rules for responding to people by name. I understand that I have a lot more power than David Dellifield, and when I put his name in a title, I affect his Google search results for a long time. I did that to make a point.

Women put up with much more harsh criticism than men do online. This is not a controversial assertion -- it is reported in the New York Times and studied at the university level. Men are more rude to women than other men online. So it would be remiss, I think, to squander the power I have online. I have a lot more power than most of the obnoxious commenters of the world. I can use that power to let people know that they cannot be rude and offensive with impunity.

Additionally, if people can say anything to me -- even on my own blog, since I allow almost anything -- then I should be able to say anything back. This is what real conversation is. You need to know that if you are having a conversation online with a blogger with a big audience, then the conversation will be heard by more people. That's what social media is about.

This leaves the most common complaint: That I called his house and his work. I have found that in general, high-profile bloggers are very cognisant of the fact that their blog carries more weight than other peoples' blogs, and they are careful what they blog about because of that. This is true for me, too. For example, you never know the names of the men I date because it would destroy their Google search results, and I dont' think that's fair. The other thing I do, because I'm careful, is that I make a phone call to complain to someone instead of using social media. Because for me, anything in social media is a huge broadcast. I called David because this is what I'd do if I had a problem with anyone online -- I would take it offline to make it private. The problem is that after I tried to privately contact David, and told him that my feelings were hurt, he said a second, hurtful thing.

I have a lot of experience dealing with people who think I'm an idiot. Almost universally, if I contact someone directly, they become more human because I am more human, and their criticism is less sharp. David's criticism became more sharp. At some point I need to draw a line and say that people cannot rip on me endlessly. I am a person, with feelings, and I can choose who I want to respond to and when. If I am endlessly irresponsible, people will stop reading me. If I am endlessly a doormat, I will be doing nothing to contribute to an authentic conversation online.

Re: Brazen Faith - David Dellifield of Ada, Ohio is a Good Guy

Sarah Pare — Tue, 14 Apr 2009 08:39:05 -0000

Actually, wait: I don't *know* that Brazen strives to uphold ethics or common decency. I'm going on the sparse experience I've had with Ryan Paugh, who in all my years online was one of the nicest people I've been in contact with and gave me great faith in the Brazen community.

I'm making the addendum because I don't want to assume anything, here.

Re: Brazen Faith - David Dellifield of Ada, Ohio is a Good Guy

Sarah Pare — Tue, 14 Apr 2009 08:21:34 -0000

GREAT POST, Rikin.

I used to be a member of the Brazen Community - I left for reasons *completely unrelated* - but had I still been affiliated, Penelope's post would have given me pause.

In *know* that Penelope does not define Brazen, as Nisha points out. But she is part of the package - and her actions should reflect the ethics and flat-out common decency that Brazen strives to uphold. And if her actions cannot, well then, she shouldn't tell us all about it in her blog.

Thanks for writing this one.

Re: Brazen Faith - David Dellifield of Ada, Ohio is a Good Guy

Don B. — Tue, 14 Apr 2009 07:44:57 -0000

I thought your post was great and I understand your thought. I have always found anger whatever the catalyst, is an emotion that leads to irrational and regrettable behavior. If the target of this anger is considered not a public figure that attack seems even more risky. I found the post and the comments uncomfortable and inconsistent with traditional Penelope writing. I am hoping she will decide she was wrong and post again regarding any lessons learned from what occurred.

Re: Brazen Faith - David Dellifield of Ada, Ohio is a Good Guy

Dana Chen — Tue, 14 Apr 2009 04:56:14 -0000

Great initiative on your part to write this blog post. I feel slightly ill at the thought of what she has done, but I think the problem is not only with her blog community, but many recognizable blogs online that creates this bubble. Within those bubbles, people give each other high-fives and backrubs, and fail to engage in any kind of critical thinking. The ones that dare to criticize and think otherwise are sometimes shunned and cast out by the vocal majority.

I also like your brief point about Kawasaki, where the strategy is not unlike that of Paris Hilton or Kim Kardashian - bad publicity is still publicity, and infamous is just as good as famous. I really wonder if the web and social media is facilitating the spread of bad taste sometimes. I cringe as I write these words, because if attention is what PT was going after, she's certainly getting enough of it.

But back to the issue on hand: have we merely moved the follow-the-leader mentality from the offline world to the online world? In your view, how can we keep the blogosphere more honest? Is there no barometer to measure objectivity and integrity on top of pagerank and traffic?

Re: Brazen Faith - David Dellifield of Ada, Ohio is a Good Guy

rikin — Mon, 13 Apr 2009 23:38:43 -0000

Thanks for coming by Cody, I really appreciate your visit and the words of encouragement. I didn't expect this many people to be supportive of what I said really.

I really wish I was a fly in the wall over at BC today. Maybe Ryan Paugh could describe it more.

Rikin

Re: Brazen Faith - David Dellifield of Ada, Ohio is a Good Guy

Cody McKibben — Mon, 13 Apr 2009 23:22:48 -0000

I agree with Rikin. If she'd wanted to make some sort of point about online relationships or human nature or something, she should have given the guy a pseudonym or something.

By making her title "I hate John Doe – the one who lives in City, State" she made it 100% personal.

Re: Brazen Faith - David Dellifield of Ada, Ohio is a Good Guy

Cody McKibben — Mon, 13 Apr 2009 23:13:47 -0000

Rikin, I'm so glad someone from the BC community stepped out and wrote this point of view. I agree with you 100%. I love the Brazen Careerist community and am a huge fan of many of its writers, but I have seen Penelope write this vitriol a few times now and I just can't stand behind it. I've met P and I like her a lot, but I disagree with the way she has used her blog on a few occasions to single people out who rub her the wrong way.

There is nothing wrong with venting online about how one shouldn't do x, y, and z on Twitter or in blog comments, but to list this guys' name and hometown, and to track him down and challenge him on his work & home phone, (and she said she nearly shared his phone numbers too!) makes it very personal. And she specifically uses the word "hate." That's not what I'm here sharing my thoughts online for, I'm here to establish new relationships and grow personally. It has made me have second thoughts about contributing to the BC community also.

I think this behavior for Penelope is most destructive because she has a huge community of twentysomethings that look up to her as a role model, and this is what she's teaching them to do. Not cool. Keep challenging the status quo Rikin! Thank you.